Dialog på tværs af religion og forskellig verdensopfattelse

Ved et rent tilfælde kom jeg tilbage i januar i kontakt med en fyr fra De Forenede Emirater. Anledningen var hans protester over Jyllandspostens Mohammed tegninger. Her følger vor mailkorrespondance:

Dear Sir,
As a very private Dane I happened to receive your mail and must say it concerns me greatly. As you write Denmark is a very peaceful country with great tolerance for different cultures and religions. We also have a very deep rooted tradition for freedom of speech and for allowing almost any opinion to be publicised. In Danish eyes the drawings in JyllandsPosten were very innocent and nothing special compared to drawings showing for instance our prime minister, our queen or the Christian Lord. As much as I may understand and respect your right to practice your religion and thereby your right to be offended if and when you perceive an insult to this religion, this matter still seems greatly out of proportion. I can assure you that the great majority of the Danish population in no way saw the drawings as an insult to your religion. Only after the reaction among some of our Muslim religious leaders most people saw the drawings and became aware that they might be offending to your religious beliefs.
Instead of promoting greater mutual understanding I am afraid the reaction in the muslim world may lead to a greater rift between the Muslim world and Denmark.
With respect

Dear Henrik Hansen,
Thanks for your replying.
Freedom of speech is not without its limits, even in a democracy. Try to question why Jews are singled out whenever the victims of the second world war are talked about for example. More than 20 million Russians were destroyed by the Nazi's and yet everyone seems to remember only the Jewish victims of the Holocaust. Try to question that and see how tolerant your democracy is and how free you are to express yourself. It seems however that freedom of speech is applied selectively. Its fashionable to insult Muslims these days so jump on the bandwagon.To be asked to not react angrily to insults to our religion and respect your rights to freedom of speech has a catch, you must reciprocate and respect our values and not be insolent just because you can in the first place.
Regards,
Dr. Samer Kelani,

Dear Samer Kelani
I am pleased to receive your mail this morning. It seems that our views are not that different after all, I quite agree that freedom of speech has its limits and that respect of values, including religious values, is fundamental for a civilized society.
Regarding your point about how we talk more about the Holocaust that the equally numerous Russian victims, I think that you are wrongly informed. In Denmark this is a very well known fact and is discussed quite freely in the press, on television and among common people.
You write correctly that it is fashionable to insult Muslims, but you must understand that this is only fashionable among a certain and relatively small political faction in Danish political life. Though many people fell that integration of immigrants and refugees present problems, these are problems we are able to deal with with out insulting religious beliefs or nationality.
The Mohammed drawings in JyllandsPosten were an exception to the rule in Danish press that you do not insult religious beliefs, especially non Christian beliefs. The great majority in Denmark are in no way antagonistic towards Islam or any other religion, but we tend not to understand religious beliefs that appear more outspoken and fundamentalist. But not understanding is definitely not the same as wanting to insult religious beliefs.
And let me ask you quite frankly, what was the insult really ? Showing some more or less artistic drawings of different persons, dressed as Arabs under the heading "Drawings of Mohammed" ? Or the fact that Danish constitution does not allow our prime-minister to interfere with what is written in a Danish newspaper even if he or the majority of Danes feels the drawings to be of bad or misinformed taste ?
And to conclude; recalling ambassadors, boycotting Danish goods, molesting Danish employees, burning our flag, is that really an appropriate reaction to your perceived insult ?
How do you expect us in Denmark to think about the Muslim world in this light ?
Kind regards

Dear Sir,
Let me first thank you for your kind and open minded responses. I would like to point a few things to you if you do not mind:1- Muslims do not depict the prophet Muhammad or any prophet for that matter, whether it be Jesus, Moses, Abraham (which we believe in all and deeply respect) in any sort of illustration or drawing, even a respectful one, let alone accepting cartoons of the single most revered person in the history of mankind (for Muslims at least) to show him as an instigator of hatred and violence, as a villain using sexual enticement to incite violence . This goes much beyond normal criticism and definitely can be defined as smear and hate campaigning.2- Opinion polls have showed that the majority of the Danes do not feel there is anything to apologize for, neither by the Danish prime minister nor by the Newspaper, so this makes them accomplices in our view.3- I would assume that the situation in Denmark is not much different from the one in France, so far as freedom of speech is concerned. That being so, I wonder if you have heard of Roger Garoudi. If not, let me quote this from the Wikipedia ( http://www.wikipedia.org/ ):"Roger Garaudy aka Ragaa (born July 17, 1913, in Marseille) is a French Muslim (convert) thinker from a strong communist background. During World War Two, Garaudy was imprisoned as a prisoner of war in Algeria. Garaudy was a communist who tried to reconcile Marxism with Catholicism in the 1970s and then abandoned both doctrines in favour of Sunni Islam when he became Muslim in 1982, taking the name Ragaa.In 1998, a French court found him guilty of Holocaust denial and racial defamation, fining him FF 120,000 ($40,000) for his 1995 book, "The Founding Myths of Israeli Politics". Endorsing the views of French revisionist historian Robert Faurisson, the book declared that during the Holocaust, Jews were not killed in gas chambers.[1] The book was quickly translated into Arabic and Persian and a Sudanese lawyer, Faruk M. Abu Eissa, assembled a five-man legal team to support Garaudy at his trial in Paris. The Iranian government paid some of Garaudy's fine."So much for freedom of speech.Have a nice day.
Regards,
Dr. Samer Kelani,Ph.D.Engineering Sciences.

Hello again
Regarding your first point I quite agree, the cartoons or drawings can easily be seen as insulting and I quite understand your and other Muslims reaction. However I can assure you they were not part in any hate campaign against Islam. This is fundamental to the whole issue. Showing the drawings in a national paper is a "normal" part of our public debate i Denmark. Normal because we have a very frank and open discussion among the great majority of the Danish population, including the Danish Muslims abut integration, about how the immigrants should be treated and should act themselves. As a part of this, at times rather heated, debate a lot of things gets said from all parties, some of it quite openly mistaken and some rather stupid misconceptions. But in the debate we all get wiser and often have the room to admit mistakes and regret insults.
What the great majority of Danes (and immigrants) sees as religious fundamentalism is hard for us to understand - and for some to respect, regrettably. But to think that there in Denmark is a hate campaign against the Islamic world is very much mistaken.
A few people of the extreme right uses uneasiness in parts of the population to stir up trouble. They will use anything to increase potential troubles and misunderstandings and so they use very bad language about Islam and immigrants. Many of these people have been tried in Danish courts and convicted of slander. In each case the Danish police have brought them to trial and it has been up to the courts to decide if they receive a fine or are sent to jail. So again in the case of the drawings in JyllandsPosten it will be up to the courts to decide if the paper is to be punished for the drawings.
And yes, this system does not always work, some get away with stupid things and there is a tendency for the courts to allow too much in the interest of free speech. I personally regret this and I know from my immigrant friends and especially from "Muslim-looking" immigrants that the find the climate for open debate in Denmark getting colder and do not always like how they are treated.
This is a problem for the whole Danish society and I can assure you that after this affair with the reaction against Danish goods, flags and employees in the Middle East, the climate regarding Muslims and immigrants as such will not get any better.
Should we apologize? Yes, apologize for not being open enough towards our new citizens, for not more actively promoting mutual respect between cultures and religions and apologize for the statements and actions of a very small minority in our society. And we do apologize for hurting the feelings of Muslims be showing the infamous drawings.
But I'm against apologizing for not breaking the Danish constitution as I am for not infringing the right of free speech.
Regarding the French example I do not know of this, but you are right to assume that anyone stating that the Holocaust did not take place will be punished by Danish law. Not by the prime minister or the parliament, but by the Danish courts. I just don't see the connection between our relations to the drawings and some misguided person disputing well-proven historical facts.
Kind regards

Dear Sir,
There is no ambiguity in this matter. There can be no misinterpretation of the intention to insult Islam and Muslims, and Muslims have every right to feel and act accordingly. Obviously we understand the consequences of our actions and are willing to bear them for we feel it is a worthy cause.Reading your message, if I didn't know better, I would assume what you said amounted to "We have the right to insult you as we see fit. Meanwhile you are not to seek to express your dissatisfaction or else the Muslim community in Denmark will suffer the consequences"You must understand that the majority of Muslims take their religion very seriously. From my own observations I can see how this can lead to certain misunderstandings in the West, where atheism is more or less predominant now, and many people are very cynical where religion is concerned.As for the example I brought you about Mr. Roger Garoudi, the man did a thorough research in the records of the WWII and came to the conclusion that the number 6 million (holocaust jewish victims) is not an accurate figure, and could be a gross exaggeration aimed at achieving certain political and economical advantages. He did not outright deny the whole thing. He certainly has a valid point of view that deserved at least some "civilized" and healthy debate, not outright condemnation. But as I said, there are times where you can outwittingly cross invisible boundaries to the freedom of speech in the west, particularly where Israel and Zionism are concerned. The stereotype "anti Semitism" is more than enough to cow the boldest and most daring thinkers. Islam and Muslims on the other hand are a favourite and easy target for anyone seeking stardom, especially in the context of Bush's war on terrorism.Have a good day.
Regards,
Dr. Samer Kelani,Ph.D.Engineering Sciences.

Hello again
I feared that we had lost contact as I feel that even this small contribution to dialogue is essential to better understanding.
In my opinion JyllandsPosten did wrong to publish the drawings, but to think that this mistake was intended to insult your religion or Profet is overdoing it. The story is simple. A writer was preparing a schoolbook about Islam and Mohammed. He mentioned that he had difficulty finding an artist, who was willing to illustrate the book. This story was taken up by JyllandsPosten, who had no difficulty finding artists willing to draw Mohammed. I you see the 12 drawings and if you knew a little about the Danish political climate, you would be able to see that only a few of the twelve drawings actually depicted a person, which anyone can see as an Arab or as Mohammed. The rest were directed against other Danish political figures and two against JyllandsPosten itself.
Having said that I must admit that the drawing with the bomb is problematical. But it can bee seen from different perspectives. One way of viewing it is as a symbol of how Islam is presented to the world population, when terrorist acts are committed in the name of Allah. It is very easy to think that Islam is a terrorist religion when it is used to explain terrorist acts. Most people know better, Islam is in itself a very peaceful religion, but there are factions in the Islam world who thinks and acts otherwise - and are quite effective promoting their opinions.
(As the are and have been factions in Christianity using this religion to excuse terrorist acts)
As stated before we are having problems integrating immigrants in Denmark, not big problems or problems that can not be solved, but we should be doing better. As you have commented religion is not a big issue in Denmark, I personally have never felt the need for a religion, and in Denmark we see the difficultties more as cultural differences. So if we seem to be against Islam, in my opinion it is much more a question of not understanding a different culture, which we are suddenly living door to door with.
I believe we have about 200.000 Muslim immigrants in Denmark, of these some 25.000 actively practice Islam and of these some 2000 belong to what we call fundamentalist factions. So the all dominating part of our Islam community are living more or less exactly as Danes and saw no real problems with the cartoons. As you know there have been no big demonstrations against JyllandsPosten in Denmark and really no debate until the actions started in the Arab world.
That does not in itself make any excuse for offending a religion, but it tells me that maybe the problem is more in your part of the world than in our.
I still do not understand why you insist to bring the Holocaust question into this discussion. Most Danes support the Palestinians in their claim for their own country and feel Israel and their actions against the Palestinians are the cause of much of the disturbance in the Middle East. We also accept it as a fact, that Jews were slaughtered by the millions by the Nazi regime. As this extermination happened on our doorstep we feel strongly that this should not happen again, and do not see that the revisionist thought is terribly interesting or should be discussed. The historical facts are simply too overwhelming. On the other hand you are quite free to express opinion against Israel, to demonstrate against Israel and to support the Palestinian cause.
If I remember correctly the biggest demonstration for some 25 years was against the second Gulf War and still Bush may be as little popular in Denmark as Sharon and Osama Bin Laden.
The last point for now. I have read, before this started, that the Norwegians and the Danes per capita gave the most (including the contributions from the Gulf states) to the relief after the Pakistan earthquake, what does that tell you about our view of Muslims ?
Have a nice weekend

Thanks for your mail, I can't find much to disagree about in what you write.
You may be interested to know that the owner of a small and very local Danish radio just the other day was sentenced to 14 days in prison for slander of Muslims. The case was started long before the cartoon issue and is only one among several where our judicial system has acted against slander of cultural, ethnic or religious groups. So the freedom of speech is not unlimited, even in Denmark. And as I've told you the police are still considering a case against JyllandsPosten.
But let me ask you, how we are to proceed from here ?
For many years the Danish nation has spent billions in aid to Palestinians and in aid to a number of other Muslim countries. We have had a lot of welfare workers in a number of nations - and , very controversial, we have troops in Iraq. Should we just call all that off, withdraw our welfare workers and the troops. Where would that leave the aid programs and the populations in poorer countries? I ask this because in Denmark right now people and parties against international aid are gaining bigger and bigger support. The political forces working against our international aid and the forces working against immigrants in Denmark are getting stronger for every Danish flag burned and every threat against Denmark. If we should have an national election today, parties which you and I would be very much opposed to would gain power and the conditions for immigrants, Muslims and our international aid would suffer greatly.
This unfortunately is very likely to be the consequences of the violent reactions to the cartoons.
Have a nice weekend too

Hello again,And sorry for being late in my reply. Day to day chores and work can take their toll on a single man. Anyway please understand that I cannot presume to be speaking for the entire Muslim nation, if such a thing exists today. I only can give you a sample of the emotional and mental picture of an average Muslim living in this part of the world.While we ( I ) do appreciate the assistance offered all these past years by Denmark and the Danish people, I do believe the Danish government made some serious mistakes. Perhaps the most serious of these is being part of the alliance of the "willing" nations which invaded Iraq and toppled the former regime. I do, and I suppose not many would argue over this point here, that Saddam Hussein was a tyrant. This tyrant however is not unique in the Middle East, where every single president or king is not that much less ruthless than he was. All the pretexts that the United States have used to justify that war have proved to be false. The US is playing a dangerous game that is tearing this region apart. Many delicate balances that have been in place for quite sometime have been broken. Iraq is now on the very brink of a civil war which threatens to spill into neighbouring countries, and the cost of life would be terrible. The Iraqis are certainly NOT faring now better than they did under Saddam, at least they had something they could refer to as "normal" life where one could go to work and come back to his family with relative security. You should remember that we have the British and French to thank for the way they divided this region , which inherently is the reason for most of the tensions between Turks, Kurds, Sunnies and Shi'ies. Being part of this American endeavour has certainly not helped polish the image of the countries that took part in it.Regarding the assistance to the Palestinian people, I suppose that since Hamas has won the FREE elections in the so called Palestinian territories, no assistance will be forthcoming anyway.Hopefully one day things will be mended and injuries healed and we will be friends again and we will be strong and TRULY independent and wont need any assistance, but will be friends just because that is the normal thing. (wishful thinking?)The violent reaction throughout the Muslim world was not simply a reaction to the cartoons, in my opinion. Its much more complicated than that. Its just an expression of the dangerous pressure that has been been building up within for quite sometime due to several factors, not least of which is being ruled by fire and iron by despotic leaders [friends and allies of the US and otherwise].
Regards,
Dr. Samer Kelani,Ph.D.Engineering Sciences.

Dear Sir,
It is very hard to argue with you on any of the points you are making, I quite agree all around. I think most people in Denmark sees the situation more or less the same way, but we are at a loss what to do and how to react.
I my opinion the western world is split between trying to do the "right thing" and the need to control oil resources, spiced up with the Palestinian problem (which in part stem from the terrible holocaust and earlier attempts of anti-Semitism found in many countries in Europe until WWII)
Now we are at a crossroad politically and culturately. Many nations reject our way of life and at the same time covet our wealth. Some of the Middle East countries are enormously wealthy by selling us oil, but have ruling classes living a double life and seriously suppressing the population, others are still very poor and others again are tormented by a more or less dictatorial leadership. And then there is Palestine...
In a globalized world it is really an option just to sit by and allow rally bad things to happen but on the other hand, the Iraq invasion shows us that intervention is not right either.
Now a very small and very Danish issue (the cartoons) has spurred a world wide reaction totally out of context. The good thing is maybe that is has showed many people here in Denmark that we can not keep pretending to be alone on this planet and hopefully that we as a nation are not treating immigrants as well as we should, but on the other hand right now the reactionary forces in Denmark are gaining strength. The party most directly and openly against immigration and integration (wanting to turn the clock back to the fifties) is dictating the actions of the government, and the opposition cant act as long as the majority is behind the present policy. That means that the conditions for the immigrants, especially Muslims - or rather outspoken Muslims - will get worse in Denmark.
And world wide the first sufferers are the Palestinians, again. The aid will probably be cut off more or less because of the democratically elected Hamas government, prompting Iran to step in with aid. With Iranian funding more European aid will be cut off and the Israeli will feel justified not to negotiate a peaceful settlement prompting more terrorist acts out of desperation. Really a nice perspective.
Somehow it should be possible for sensible people in a globalized world to get together and find new solutions, where cultural differences are seen as a prerogative for common development. The situation may be to difficult and too serious to leave only to heads of states, kings, dictators and the Bush family.
Kind regards

Med det slutted vor dialog desværre. Jeg blev lidt klogere og jeg håber at Dr. Samer Kelani også kom til at se, at hellerikke fra dansk synspunkt var sagen helt entydig og ligetil.
I'll be back